Wednesday, February 07, 2007

Ignorance of the highest order

DK has pointed me in the direction of a post by the erm, Caroline Hunt about why people shouldn't vote UKIP.

Well, dear old Trix had to have a calming cigarette after reading it, such was the immense frustration it caused. It makes Polly's arguments look well researched and thought out:

So as I'm sure you've seen Liam Fox made some comments on GMTV this morning saying (essentially) a vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour. Now this is a subject I care about deeply. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone, anyone would vote UKIP at the next General Election. We have had a Labour government for ten years now. I must be right in thinking that there is not one member of UKIP who would like a Labour government for any longer. Labour are not interested in their views on Europe, Labour are not interested in their views on immigration, Labour do not support any of the ream of reactionary policies Farage has drawn up to try and increase the sham of suggesting that UKIP are anything other than a single issue party with a one issue agenda - to withdraw from the EU.

Now it is not Conservative party policy to withdraw from the EU. However it is not Labour party policy or Lib Dem party policy either. There are however Conservative MP's who support withdrawal from the EU. I'm not aware of any in the other two parties. All Conservative MP's are deeply concerned about the undemocratic, bureaucratic waste of money that is the current form of the EU. Deeply anti-EU MEP's like Roger Helmer and Dan Hannan stand under the Conservative banner.

So if you were UKIP's target audience why on earth would you vote for a party that has not and will not win a single seat at Westminster and will absolutely positively never form a government? Especially since by voting for them 8 times out of 10 you are reducing the number of votes for the only party other than the Labour party that can form a government at the next general election? Frankly they deserve what they get if they let in another Labour government that won't have the balls to stand up to the EU. However if they have any sense they'll vote for the only party that comes close to representing their views - the Conservative Party.

Anyway, I commented. Twice.

No, Caroline, I don't want another Labour government. I want a UKIP government. And if I can't have that, I at least want UKIP MPs. I'm not going to get that by not voting for them, am I?

If you can't understand why people would vote UKIP then it may be time to compare their manifesto with that of the Tory party.

I, for example, vote UKIP because firstly I want the UK to withdraw from the EU and replace membership with a free trade agreement. Once we have control of our own trade policy we can, either multilaterally, bilaterally or unilaterally embrace free trade. This has the benefits of increasing global parity.

I also understand that the way to stimulate economic growth is to cut taxes, as an increased marginal propensity to consume and invest increases the money multiplier. This is NOT the policy of the Conservatives, who seem to have abandoned any logical economic policy, and who also want to keep state spending at this unsustainable and damaging level.

I also believe in selection for schools and think that the reintroduction of grammar schools and support for existing grammar schools is vital for improving education in this country. I think that Head teachers should be freed up from being controlled by the government and should have control of their own school. This is not the policy of the Conservatives.

I don't think that environmental taxes are necessary. Indeed, I think they are a convenient way for our westminster politicians to raise taxes without any political opposition from within Parliament. I certainly don't think that we should be so preoccupied with an unproven theroy, which this fandango with climate change is.

I think we should have nuclear power. I think we should build more prisons.

As for Helmer and Hannan. Well, the fact that Helmer was thrown out of the EPP for doing what he was elected to do is illustrative of the true feelings in the Tory party towards anyone with EUsceptic leanings.

Helmer was given the whip back after he wrote a letter to Cameron saying he would join UKIP unless the whip was restored, so clearly he thinks that there is a reason to vote UKIP.

People vote UKIP because they represent the views of many, many people. And as it is their democratic right to vote for who they wish to, why should they not vote for a party which represents their views? It's not a case of only being able to vote for Tories or Labour. I actually think that Gordon Brown is more EUsceptic than David Cameron, and having heard him address the European Parliament Economic and Monetary Affairs committee, I certainly heard more statements from him to convince me of that than I ever heard or saw in 2 years of following that committee and seeing the true beliefs of the Tory MEPs on that committee.

As a last point Caroline, what do you think about the Tory MEPs helping to fund the 'yes' propaganda for the EU Constitution? Because they did....

Your comment that UKIP cannot and will not win seats in Westminster is rather confusing. Do you know something you're not letting on? Are all UKIP votes going to be destroyed? Is there a ban on UKIP entering Parliament? Or are you just copying rhetoric from your leadership who don't exactly have a perfect record when it comes to speaking honestly about any matters linked with the EU.

Withdrawing from the CFP and Social Chapter, anyone?


It's also a bit rich for you to say that: 'Labour do not support any of the ream of reactionary policies Farage has drawn up to try and increase the sham of suggesting that UKIP are anything other than a single issue party with a one issue agenda - to withdraw from the EU.'

That's a contradictory comment in itself. If there are other policies, how can it be a single issue party? And why attack Labour for not supporting them when Nu Tories don't either?

It's as hypocritical as listening to David Davies talking about the need to control immigration when it was the Tory government in 1994 who first gave up control over 'internal' borders to the EU, and seeing as the Conservatives want to remain in the EU where there is free movement of people within the bloc, they clearly do not want control of our borders.

May I point out on this issue that it was a Tory MEP, Geoffrey Van Orden, who drafted the legislation which allowed Bulgaria to join the EU. Tory MEPs voted time and time again to enlarge the EU in 2004 and again this year, and are in support of Turkey joining. They are also in support of the 'common market' which by definition is the free movement of goods, services and people.

So, basically, the Tories have the same immigration policy as NuLabour and the Lib Dems. They want the EU to have control. Tell me, if I want control of the UK borders by UK officials and I want to remove this colour bar from 'our' immigration policy, who else should I vote for but UKIP?

Tests for voting, it's the only way!

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